Let's Continue Where We Were With the e-mail Discussion

Can one viner collapse another viners article or does it a take a gang attack?

Takes a gang.

I'm the same as Al in that I saw a few articles about what was happening but I try to stay away from such arguments. It's just not worth it in my opinion.

I just found out a little bit of this late yesterday and none of it makes sense that an established Viner would ever threaten another Viner on the Vine or off of it.

I have read about a "gang" being busted for sending mass emails to troll or disrupt articles and perhaps even collapse articles. I imagine NV will be compiling stats on everyone who has ever voted to collapse articles and comments via NV's computer technology.

I usually avoid situations like this like I would the plague. However, in this case I think it should be considered a top priority to get to the roots of this and resolve it once and for all for the future of Newsvine and for the comfort level of all of us that participate on it.

I do feel that the staff of Newsvine is taking this situation seriously and doing all that they can to resolve it.

Would a friend of Dennis's take the chance of messing things up for him even more?

Would an enemy?

He/She obviously supports Dennis. Dennis has made it clear he doesn't need that kind of support.

End of story.

Was Dennis' computer hacked? That's what is important.

Darrah, I feel for Pat. We all agree that the anonymous email was unacceptable. Focusing on this or discussing if you were unfairly prevented from conjecturing on another thread has nothing to do with the reason this blow-up started.

Dennis knows what we are seeking. He hinted that another viner may have spoofed his email. He denied sending the emails, in spite of Viki offering technical evidence and reasonable assumptions.

This issue remains. We (friends, adversaries and all those in between) need to know the truth.

Would a friend of Dennis's take the chance of messing things up for him even more?

Would an enemy?

Maybe. If they thought it would make him look bad.

We (friends, adversaries and all those in between) need to know the truth.

I don't.

Chasing- You have been the voice of reason in this meta-storm. If anyone could have talked the situation down it would have been you. I don't think you ever had a chance but I respect you for trying.

Sometimes folks just can't let @!$%# go.

I consider myself a greenie and no one of consequence.

Dude, it's Newsvine. Everything around here is green. And everyone is of consequence. Don't sell yourself short.

Oh, wait. Yellow Dog. Ok, you're yellow-green.

Edit, 2/2: Viki Babbles Gonia asks here:

Just to clarify here, Tyler, you mean give good feedback to the developers about the use of the "new" Newsvine, as well as participate in discussions with other beta testers and the devs about how it's working, bugs and issues, what might work better, etc., correct?

Yes. Nominate folks you think will kick all the tires on the system and try things that developers may not have thought of.

My bad I must of misinterpreted it.

well, by all means, knock yourselves out. I didn't want it to get out of control on my seed either but...

The whole damn thing is beyond silly.

Absolutely! I'd like to see a discussion on just what one expects when using the "contact author" function in order to have a personal, civil, non-threatening, non-harassing conversation with a friend. Because, folks, privacy isn't implied and it's not guaranteed.

The goofiest part is that if I had sent those emails, it wouldn't have been a violation of anything, and as far as I know, those who did receive them didn't complain.

So what we have is a guy accused of committing a non-crime, that had no victims. He has no motive, sees no evidence (I don't know who received the emails, other than two people who publicly stated that they did) and he's assumed guilty unless he can prove his innocence.

Every legal system in the history of Earth just simultaneously said "what the @!$%#??"

Dennis, what did the techs find on your computer?

Who spoofed your account and sent those emails?

Does NV have a history of prior similar occurrences?

The goofy part is that if you didn't send those emails, why aren't you helping out all NVers by finding the security breach and letting us all know so we can prevent it?

I couldn't care less about the effing petition. I care about my internet security, as I'm sure, most do.

Dennis, what did the techs find on your computer?

They've still got it. While it's there I'm having them upgrade some stuff. A big hard drive, new video card, more memory. I could add that stuff myself, but what the hell. Free labor.

Does NV have a history of prior similar occurrences?

Don't think so, but that's a question for Newsvine.

The goofy part is that if you didn't send those emails, why aren't you helping out all NVers by finding the security breach and letting us all know so we can prevent it?

Because I'm a painter. What the hell do I know about programming?

I couldn't care less about the effing petition. I care about my internet security, as I'm sure, most do.

All I can say is Firewall/anti-virus/anti-malware.. Anything beyond that is out of my field.

Dennis, here's some common ground, literally.

I hope everyone enjoys this. Thanks to Keith in DSM for sharing it with the Slang Gang.

About as common ground as it gets.

Speaking of benefit of the doubt. As a friend, I gave Dennis the benefit of the doubt for reasons I'm not going to rehash here. I've already stated them in the other Meta slugfest article. As for Pat, I do not know her, never had any interactions with her before. I stay away from politics on here, which is probably why we don't cross paths.

I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt as I did Dennis, even though I don't know her, and I did, but a couple things have come up, and it's raised a few questions in my mind. I went back and read that email she received more closely a day or two ago, and it's so over the top and exaggerated, it's like it was intentionally done that way to point fingers at Dennis, and those who gave him the benefit of the doubt.

I found out a couple of days ago that she received an email just like this one back in September, same vile content. I was told that email was almost identical to this latest one but had no reference of Dennis in it. She posted it on an article after she received it. The article was taken down by the seeder not long after that.

What has me asking questions is this. Why didn't she quit back in September, if it was in fact a vile email that caused her to leave, and why didn't she mentioned it in her goodbye post, about receiving an email just like this a few months ago, fearing she has a stalker. Why didn't she notify the authorities on that September email if she felt threatened, as she does with this email? I'd still like to give her the benefit of the doubt, but some things don't make sense.

I'm not saying she did it, it's probably someone who just wants to stir @!$%# up, there's been a whole lot of that going on the last couple of weeks. I do hope she takes both emails to the authorities. There is no place on this site for that @!$%#, for stalkers, or game players.

That's all I have to say on the matter, I'm not getting in the middle of another Meta fist fight, that last one wore me out.

Sometimes you can take it for a while until that final straw. Looks like Pat N came up to that moment.

that still doesnt explain why she didnt take a threatening email to the authorities the first time. Plus she kept posting them in articles instead of going to the authorities first , why? how does that help her? All that does is start conjecture. why block out the sender of the email since her obvious purpose was to point to Dennis anyway?

Why did she have such a cow about the email in the first place? why did she go on and smear Dennis with other accusations she couldnt prove?

What I find baffling... is that with the shoe on the other foot, we have Pat... who received a vile email, who has presented it as such from someone not identified. A portion of those people who were imploring others to take Dennis for his word have suddenly turned their stances around to begin provoking doubt and producing conspiracy theories regarding the legitimacy of Pat's email. Worse yet... there are no facts, and no inconsistencies unlike the previous instance

.

On the flip side, people who were completely unwilling to give Dennis the benefit of the doubt are now willing to give that same benefit to Pat, in spite of the fact - the very suspicious fact that someone pointed out on the now collapsed article - that the sender of that email and Pat both share a very odd, very uncommon spelling of the word "email". "e mail" - rather than the more common "email" or even "e-mail".

Food for thought.

Pat deserves exactly the same consideration and benefit of the doubt that she ultimately gave Dennis. No more, no less. If her "e mail" is real, however, I hope she will now realize that her stalking and posting of Dennis' personal information (his degrees/education, his job position, etc.) was wrong, in light of the tables now having been turned. Nobody deserves to have their personal life dragged out onto a public message board, regardless of whether their real name has been shared or not.

That's interesting and I had not seen that pointed out till now. Are there links to previous comments from Pat with this spelling, and is it consistent? In addition, while suspicious if true, how does that measure up to something such as the logs?

I don't know if she's always spelled it that way, but she certainly did during the whole "Dennis email debacle".

As for whether it measures up to the logs, each incident deserves to stand on its own.

"Dennis email debacle".

Emailgate. I'm going with Emailgate.

For the record, there is at least one other instance of that spelling "e mail"; it wasn't a one-off occurrence.

Read #58.42 - sorry, I never did figure out how to link directly to a comment.

http://primarysources.newsvine.com/_news/2010/02/19/3921008-paperdragon-remembering-dennis-p-mccann?pc=25&sp=50#discussion_nav

Emailgate. I'm going with Emailgate.

Emailgate it is! (Or "e mailgate", as it were...)

:)

Yeah, I was coming back to write that I did a ctrl-F on the last page of the article and saw 100 matches for "e mail" and that it was pretty consistent for Pat. If it's the peg people want to hang their hat on, then that's the way it is.

I think each incident stands on its own regardless, but it seems that the deciding point of those in support of or against these indicidents revolves around bias more than it does anything else. Rightfully so, there is plenty of room for conjecture... In my opinion there is less fact and more room for conjecture in Pat's case than Dennis's, and I attribute that to the logs.

Though I forgot to repeat it here, it ultimately is fruitless or pointless in Dennis's case, if he did send the emails it is still certainly not an offense to do so to your friends.

As for 'credibility'... it's the internet, I would like to think we all remain relatively skeptical of each other to some minor degree regardless of our tenure with each other.

...

On a sidenote, if I copy the actual comment number, it copies the url reference with it when I paste, like such: #58.42 You can also click the comment number at the comment you want to link, and it'll put that URL into your browser's address line for you to copy and paste.

I see... in that comment she spelt it as "e-mail" and "e mail".

Thanks for the lesson. I never could figure that out!

As you point out, she actually spells it two different ways in that particular comment. For what it is worth, I am unable to find an other person on that seed that spells it "e mail".

As for hanging hats on pegs, well, you are right - people will form their own conclusions on things that are seemingly of lesser or more consequence; she was no different. She hung her hat on a claim that someone lied about having a degree because he used the phrase "attended XYZ University" rather than the words "graduated from XYZ University". She deserves no more - or less - consideration than she gave others for the truth.

I never thought about that alternate spelling thing, but I went and looked at the page you linked. Just going about one fourth of the way down, I found some examples:

• Here.
• Here.
• Here.
• Here.
• Here.
• Here.
• Here.
• Here.
• Here.
• Here.

Good points Bonos, especially on the unique spelling issue. We all have our little ticks as far as ways of saying things and even spelling things, especially if we are not thinking them out and they just flow out naturally.

In my case, three ticks I have are using basically, actually and satring sentences with "and".

One more reason I have suspicions about this whole episode.

Hi, bonos. To be clear, I was the one who asked Dennis questions about his degree. I don't think Pat did; she just glommed on to it after I did and ran with it. I've apologized to Dennis for the offense taken at the question--I understand that--and I accept the answer he gave about his degrees. I'll admit I was skeptical about his honesty about some things and just happened upon his educational background on his website, which is what prompted my question. Again, I understand how simply posing the question was offensive to him and others.

I too still think that Dennis's insistence about not sending the emails via the contact button is credible and is not tantamount to an "offense" in the first place. And I too am interested to know what his computer check-up revealed if he chooses to share it.

"e mail"

I've been in IT for as long as there has been email, and I can't recall anyone spelling it that way.

Oh please. Then I guess I have more exposure than you do because I've seen it spelled every way under the sun INCLUDING with the space between the "e" and the "mail".

Do you know how many people dot their "i" when writing with a dot or a circle? I bet all those people who use a little circle are really all the same person.

You know what else?!!!!

I have actually seen plenty of people cross the letter "t' at an angle! I bet all correspondence in the world where that occurs is done by the same person too!

Lets not forget the people here on the vine that use similar phrases. I bet THEY are all the same person too!!!!

OMGAWD! You've really stumbled onto something here.

/sarc

Right, msrachelm. And yet out of the dozens of people involved who were discussing emails, we haven't found ANYONE else involved that spells it the same way. Only Pat and her mysterious emailer...

Which leads me to another question. Why did this "good friend of Dennis", this horrible, awful person, who is so hateful and so rabidly defensive of dennis, ONLY email Pat? Why not the other three people that were accusing Dennis? That makes literally no sense. Why wouldn't they warn the others to "back off"?

JM...

That something solid will likely be the results, if shared, of whether or not there was an issue with Dennis's computer.

My guess is that they won't find anything, providing verifiable evidence that his computer has been tampered with, locally or remotely.

It's been almost a week...

The goofy part is that if you didn't send those emails, why aren't you helping out all NVers by finding the security breach and letting us all know so we can prevent it?

Excellent question!

.

If I burned down my house, for insurance purposes, I probably wouldn't be spending much time searching for the "arsonist."

.

One huge difference, between Pat's situation and dennis's situation...

In Pat's situation, we do not have ANY evidence to support the position that she is lying.

In the other case, logs files and patterns provide that evidence, respectively.

It should also be pointed out that, in Driftwood's situation, the log files and NV staff determinations were accepted as adequate evidence to convict, by key individuals in the "Dennis email debacle."

Disclaimer: I am not interested in revisiting the Driftwood situation. It's over and done with.

My ONLY purpose in introducing it, is to point out the contradiction by some to accept Tyler and Viki's explanation and evidence in one case. yet dismiss it in another...

mrsrachelm

Then I guess I have more exposure than you do because I've sen it spelled every way under the sun INCLUDING with the space between the "e" and the "mail".

Riiiiight. I didn't say only one person spelled it that way, I said I've never seen anybody else spell it that way...and I haven't. And what-do-ya-know, Wikki agrees:

Spelling

Electronic mail has several English spelling options that occasionally prove cause for surprisingly vehement disagreement.

• email is the form required by and working groups and increasingly by This spelling also appears in most dictionaries.
• e-mail is a form previously recommended by some prominent journalistic and technical style guides. According to data, this form appears most frequently in edited, published American English writing.
• mail was the form used in the original RFC. The service is referred to as mail and a single piece of electronic mail is called a message.
• eMail, capitalizing only the letter M, was common among ARPANET users and the early developers of Unix, CMS, AppleLink, eWorld, AOL, GEnie, and Hotmail.^{[citation needed]}
• EMail is a traditional form that has been used in RFCs for the "Author's Address",^[17][18] and is expressly required "for historical reasons".
• E-mail is sometimes used, capitalizing the initial letter E as in similar abbreviations like A-bomb, H-bomb, and C-section.

^{http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email#Spelling}

I guess they'll have to add a bullet point for anonymous emails and single (former) NewsVine users.

Statistically speaking, it's quite suspect.

It should also be pointed out that, in Driftwood's situation, the log files and NV staff determinations were accepted as adequate evidence to convict

Two accounts with the same IP. Nothing to do with log files.

Let it go, Global.

Don't know if it has been mentioned, but MJL-3's Saga of emails has been restored.

My guess is that they won't find anything, providing verifiable evidence that his computer has been tampered with, locally or remotely.

And my guess is that there will never be a police report forthcoming on Pat's part, and she'll never have a name to give NV, so that others can be protected from this mysterious emailer.

We both have our opinions and our rights to them.

I'm just an ellipse freak... ☺

Oh well if WIKI says it, it simply MUST be true. LOL

Dennis: When YOU let it go, others will too. Practice what you preach. The two accounts theory with the same IP was already blown out of the water entirely, Dennis.

When YOU let it go, others will too...

I don't know about that. It would be very simple to say, yes, the techs found something on my computer, or, no, they found nothing. As long as there's no comment, there's suspicion. Withholding the yes makes no sense whatsoever as it would exonerate Dennis to his naysayers and possibly indicate that some kind of acknowledgement and/or apology is due him. Very simple. So I'm afraid just letting it go and ignoring the questions about what was found on his computer is only fueling the doubt and suspicion. I imagine a lot of people are assuming that the reason he isn't responding is because nothing was found on his computer and he doesn't want to go there. Don't blame him.

When you choose not to answer--absolutely your right and your choice--you do have to expect people to speculate--ironically something that's been complained about in lieu of using actual facts instead of active imaginations.

Oh well if WIKI says it, it simply MUST be true. LOL

LOL is right. Since the 4th most popular website in the world isn't good enough for you, one that is also user driven, how about: Future Perfect or The Fiction Desk or The Grammar Girl.

The chances of two people using that same extremely rare (and very wrong) spelling are pretty damn slim. You can at least agree with that, no?

Well, you make a good point, TS. I'm sure that had the techies found evidence of his computer having been hacked in such a way as to spoof his IP he would have put a photo up of the report saying as much and demanded acknowledgment.

I know I would have.

Silence can speak so much louder than words in cases like this.

He's stated that he still does NOT have his PC back yet. How would he have a report if he still doesn't have the PC back yet?

Thank you, MsAubrey, I didn't know that.

Dennis: When YOU let it go, others will too. Practice what you preach.

Excuse me? That whole metastorm was caused by four people accusing me of doing something I did not do. I was not the aggressor. They were. I did not ask for it. They did.

In the aftermath of that, several articles have been written, mostly by people who weren't there, trying to find out what happened. I've left several comments on each, but not many, nor did I write any article of my own.

I let this go right after I handed their asses to them in Synth's thread - a thread you came into near the very end. You too missed the entire thing.

The two accounts theory with the same IP was already blown out of the water entirely, Dennis.

Wrong. That is the reason Driftwood was banned. Multiple accounts.

Silence can speak so much louder than words in cases like this.

Especially if the words are coming from someone who has no idea what the issues were or how they played out, but only came in at the end to snipe at people.

Let the people who were there answer the questions about what happened there.

He's stated that he still does NOT have his PC back yet.

And lets not forget that I live in a country where things move slowly. They hold a meeting to schedule a meeting to talk about when to have a meeting. The university techs have my computer. University work will take precedence over working on my system, which is fine. I'm in no hurry.

Have laptop, will travel.

Emailgate. I'm going with Emailgate.

Emailgate it is! (Or "e mailgate", as it were...)

Ahem. I believe I have credit for being the first to coin that term, here.

Carry on.

had the techies found evidence of his computer having been hacked in such a way as to spoof his IP

It's not necessary to hack someone's computer to spoof their IP. All you need is to have received an email from them.

All you need is to have received an email from them.

B.S.

What about:

Advanced technical knowledge?

Motive?

Perfect window of opportunity and extraordinary timing?

Ahem. I believe I have credit for being the first to coin that term, here.

That you do.

had the techies found evidence of his computer having been hacked in such a way as to spoof his IP

The techies are Turks. They should be done with their tea by next Thursday, at which point they'll think about working on it. Then they'll talk about that. Over tea.

Advanced technical knowledge?

Motive?

Perfect window of opportunity?

Motive, sure, the other two... nope. You don't need to be that advanced, and the window of opportunity boils down to 'any old time.'

Well, we already know that the two accounts / same IP addy theory Dennis puts forth is not supported and has been de-bunked by the actual logs, timestamps, etc on the vine records. So, the only way they could do this and remain undetected is if they had his password and just happened to know when he wasn't currently logged in. The only way they would get his password would be through a key logger or some such which would be on his computer.....hence he was hacked.

Techies are trained to find these things and would certainly have told him PRIOR to his deciding to replace most of his computers guts including his hard drive, lol. UNLESS, he just told them to do that in lieu of worrying about if it had been hacked or not which would seem strange to me as that would be the ultimate way to prove to all concerned exactly what happened and put the issue to bed once and for all.

So, I'll be waiting with baited breath for the report by the techies. I won't be HOLDING my breath, mind you....just waiting.

Dennis, check your email. No need to answer...

Two accounts with the same IP. Nothing to do with log files.

LOL!

And how did the techs know that the IP's matched??

Clue: They checked the Log Files.

I'm doubting that Driftwood wrote in, offering her two, unique IP addresses.

.

Because I'm a painter. What the hell do I know about programming?

All I can say is Firewall/anti-virus/anti-malware.. Anything beyond that is out of my field.

Technology is best left to the professionals...

.

Which begs the question... What did you learn, in getting your Masters:

I have a Masters in Media Communications, that's how. Emphasis in new media.

.

Illumination aside, my main point is that you were more than willing to convict Driftwood, and many others, singularly on the basis of the determination of the NV staff. Yet, when you are indicted, you state that the very same methodology, that you relied upon and supported in other cases, is no longer credible:

Viki simply believes the logs and that's it.

No Viki, my IP did. That proves nothing.

and my favorite...

The logs are not definitive because logs are never definitive.

.

So, which is it? Were others falsely convicted or is this phenomenon unique to your predicament?

As to the other charges - 75 out of 82 people are now gone. banned. over. If I was an assistant DA, I'd be running for @!$%#ing governor.

B.S.

What about:

Advanced technical knowledge?

Motive?

Perfect window of opportunity and extraordinary timing?

I was only pointing out that it's not necessary to go to the trouble of hacking someone's computer to obtain their IP address.

Well, we already know that the two accounts / same IP addy theory Dennis puts forth is not supported and has been de-bunked by the actual logs, timestamps, etc on the vine records.

Pay attention, mrsrachel. That was in answer to Global's comment about DRIFTWOOD. Nothing to do with this at all. Driftwood.

And the accuracy of logs themselves was dismissed by Gumwar's analysis - which was asked for by PatN. Logs are only as accurate as the information fed to them. GIGO.

Really, the analysis of what went on there is probably better left to those who at least read it.

Techies are trained to find these things and would certainly have told him PRIOR to his deciding to replace most of his computers guts including his hard drive, lol.

OK, this is silly. I'm not replacing anything because of this. The techs will tell me what they find, but while it's in the shop, I'm having ANOTHER hard drive added (for storage space), a better video card installed, and the RAM kicked up from 2 to 3 Gigs. Nothing to do with this, just improvements.

And how did the techs know that the IP's matched??

They checked a different thing entirely. Activity logs and IP records aren't the same.

Technology is best left to the professionals...

So is reading comprehension.

Illumination aside, my main point is that you were more than willing to convict Driftwood, and many others, singularly on the basis of the determination of the NV staff.

Like hell I was. I was only in her column a few times. I had nothing to do with her whatsoever.

So, which is it? Were others falsely convicted or is this phenomenon unique to your predicament?

That would be false equivalency mixed with flat out lies on your part. IP records are not the same as logs (false equivalency) and I had nothing to do with Driftwood at all (flat out lie).

And I'm sure as hell not going to relitigate this whole thing, especially with the guy who started the whole fiasco.

Have a nice life.

Sorry... But to just lighten the mood a bit. Here's something to make some giggle. Ding ding.

You'd think someone with technical expertise would offer to trace the IP address of the person that sent their friend a "threatening" email...

I think it was fake like this one

TO: mjl-eXXXX@XXX.com

From: XXXXXXXXXX@XXX.net

Subject:Dumb Ass

why don't you go%$&&** yourself and %$$&**& &*&^% you are at it.

Anyone can do that. This is an email I mailed to myself. I was mad and me emailed this to myself :)

One word: Gullible

This is why Dennis rubs people the wrong way.

Earlier up he stated:

For me, it's over. For anyone who wants to know what happened, you'll have to read three articles. Well, the comments in three articles. My petition article, then Tyler's article, then Synthesis two year old article.

To which I think this is good advice. There is way too much detail for most anybody to recount flawlessly or to the satisfaction of everyone... so go to the source. Solid advice.

Then he writes in response to mrsrachelm :

I let this go right after I handed their asses to them in Synth's thread - a thread you came into near the very end. You too missed the entire thing.

Let's ignore the highly subjective commentary and opinion that he "handed their asses to them", and instead look at the last statement/commentary to mrsrachelm which when we join it with this comment :

Especially if the words are coming from someone who has no idea what the issues were or how they played out, but only came in at the end to snipe at people.

Let the people who were there answer the questions about what happened there.

Is clearly stating that even if a person goes through the hundreds of comments ... that if we weren't there from the "start" that we just have "no idea".

You on one hand tell others to go to the source, and then in the next tell them that whatever conclusions they draw are simply secondary to yours or rather to whomever you deem as having the intimate knowledge you think is required to draw the correct and acceptable conclusion.

...

People don't appreciate these sorts of sentiments Dennis, and I think this speaks precisely to the points Truth Sleuth has been making regarding your style and manner of handling things.

...

So pick your stance... either you're here to interpret, commentate, and story tell your perspective... or you've moved on, are done with this... consider it "silly" and will be leaving those still into this drama to hash and rehash it amongst themselves? You are certainly entitled to perform whichever of the two you wish... but let's not continue to contradict ourselves.

...

Absolutely shaking my head at the "handed their asses" statement. If handing one their ass in an argument was by the Dennis model it would constitute.. denial, followed by conjecture, followed by dismissal. I just realized that my girlfriend argues in the same manner... I'm having a Twilight Zone moment. Okay... back to the grind stone.

When you get the results on your computer, how about using something other than conspiracy theories to hand people their "asses"?

...

I checked back on a whim folks, and saw that after a very cool, calm, collected start... that we'll be getting back into the same old groove. And no Dennis, you're not necessarily responsible for that, but you are certainly proving to be a willing participant.

...

You all have a good evening.

Well said, Rat Poison.

you're not necessarily responsible for that, but you are certainly proving to be a willing participant.

And this:

I don't have a set on the moral high ground. I own it.

Grandiosity at it's finest. And why would that be?

dennis...

Activity logs and IP records aren't the same.

As someone with a "Masters in Media Communications," please explain what you are referring to when you discuss "IP records" vs "Activity logs."

How are they not connected?

I was of the understanding that "IP records" are recorded and stored in Log files.

What are the files called, that record and store "IP records?"

.

Either way, there are files (call them what you like) on the servers, at NV, which record and store activities. You have, in the past, relied on those files as valid. Why are they no longer valid, in your case?

As to the other charges - 75 out of 82 people are now gone. banned. over. If I was an assistant DA, I'd be running for @!$%#ing governor.

Global

Dennis is a viner, why do you continue to go after him

Pat is gone, SHE Left.

MJL, if what you are accusing Pat of doing is your answer why oh why would she go to the police and incriminate herself? See that idea doesn't float. And as Pat said on that article...she waited to comment for 200 + comments because she saw a discrepancy in what Dennis was saying and he kept repeating it.

http://primarysources.newsvine.com/_news/2010/02/19/3921008-paperdragon-remembering-dennis-p-mccann?pc=25&sp=50#c20891132

RP...

When you get the results on your computer, how about using something other than conspiracy theories to hand people their "asses"?

Along you and others, I look forward to hearing, either way, what the techs discover on his computer.

In the meantime, my ass is right where I left it, yesterday...

Sorry, posted in the wrong place...

Vol

Did you see the police report?

Personally I believe NOTHING that she would say, too many holes in too many conversations.

MJL...

Dennis is a viner, why do you continue to go after him

Please!

There are questions, which remain.

Innuendos that need correcting.

Accusations that need retracting:

Global, Gillis and krishna are behind this. @!$%# those @!$%#s. And @!$%# Tyler for fueling the fire.

Nobody is going after anyone. It seems obvious, that many continue to seek a resolution to the "Dennis email debacle," besides I didn't do it, I tell ya!

The results of his computer checkup will help a great deal.

Comments, like this, don't help:

I let this go right after I handed their asses to them...

.

One could easily ask; Why do you continue to look out for him?

Is clearly stating that even if a person goes through the hundreds of comments ... that if we weren't there from the "start" that we just have "no idea".

Correct. It was a very long discussion across three threads. A couple thousand comments, much of it technical. mrsrachelm came in at the very end, literally in the last hour or two. She doesn't know what occurred before that, and showed that very clearly by what she posted.

RP...go read all three threads in their entirety. Then you'll know exactly what I mean, like the people who were there for it already do. Every argument made by the opposing side was refuted. In the end, they all scattered, except for PatN...who suddenly received an email and deleted her account. Oh, excuse me. e mail.

Grandiosity at it's finest. And why would that be?

Because I took on four people who were the aggressors and disproved everything the said. No matter what they threw at me, I refuted it, as did others. And now I'm hearing crap from people who are completely unaware of the details of any of it? heh. Excuse me if I don't take that seriously. See I was there, and I was the one under fire.

And the last man standing.

Global

Dennis is a viner, why do you continue to go after him

He's been doing it for like a year. It's what he does.

MJL, if what you are accusing Pat of doing is your answer why oh why would she go to the police and incriminate herself?

I've seen no police report? You?

Along you and others, I look forward to hearing, either way, what the techs discover on his computer.

You're not going to hear. As I said on that thread, the findings are going to the tech guys here so they can be used to close any security holes.

Accusations that need retracting:

And just when are you and your pals going to do that? Oh, that's right. You guys made the accusation, and I'm supposed to retract something.

You started the whole thing, Global. Jack and Krishna and later Pat, joined you. At the end, you'd all left, and it was just Pat. Now you can deny that, and probably will, but there are a lot of people on Newsvine who watched the whole thing.

Why do you continue to look out for him?

I believe him

why would she go to the police...

Where is the evidence that she went to the police?

If we're expecting intellectual honesty, clarity, no parsing of words, and actual facts and evidence in one case, instead of speculation, assumptions and wild imaginations, then let's be fair across the board in other cases. Otherwise, this really is one of those "my team" versus "your team" things. And that's about as childish as it gets. You can be loyal to your friends and still be an advocate for the truth, whatever it may be.

Pat said she reported this to the police. Fine. There's no evidence that she's lying. There's also no evidence that she went to the police. She's innocent of anything until something is proved otherwise. And, yes, there are some interesting questions about that suspicious and pretty far-fetched e-mail.

There was no threat of physical harm in the "e mail." If she took it to the police they will do nothing.

Well, actually we have as much evidence Pat went to the police as that someone spoofed Dennis account and sent those emails. The difference being, if pat did go to the police which she says she did, according to Viki, and she was the actual "perp", she would be guilty of filing a false police report. Dennis would get nothing of the sort.

Personally I believe NOTHING that she would say, too many holes in too many conversations.

And way to many "explanations" which make no sense from Dennis, IMO

vol

Do you actually believe pat after the stunt of posting email from Dennis, it was a betrayal, and remember what she posted about her "friends"?

I don't give a @!$%# if someone is a friend or not.

by Pat N

and Dennis had to keep explaining himself...and the NV logs show otherwise

I don't give a @!$%# if someone is a friend or not.

by Pat N

could you finish that complete paragraph there MJL, for context? Thanks.

Well, actually we have as much evidence Pat went to the police as that someone spoofed Dennis account and sent those emails. The difference being,

That I was presumed guilty unless I could prove my innocence, whereas she's presumed innocent unless someone can prove guilt. She's getting the benefit of the doubt that I didn't get.

LOL, so Pat would take a fake email and actually send it to the police? Highly unlikely, which is why it's more likely she never received an email in the first place. But what's she going to say to those that ask what's going on with it -- that she didn't send it to the police? She wouldn't be able to explain that away, so she has to say she sent it to them.

She's getting the benefit of the doubt that I didn't get.

Exactly. As I put it several times already, she deserves from us the exact same consideration or benefit of the doubt that she gave you. No more, no less.

I was presumed guilty unless I could prove my innocence,...

By some, yes. Not everybody. As of right now, I would still vote "not guilty" in both your cases. No definitive evidence otherwise so far and a lot of reasonable doubt and what appears to be no common-sense reason to be lying. But, are people still puzzled or suspicious because some things obviously don't add up and would like their suspicions quelled (or confirmed)? Yep.

Are people still puzzled though or suspicious because some things obviously don't add up?

Yep!

mrsrachelm

Are people still puzzled though or suspicious because some things obviously don't add up?

Yep!

Really?

Vol

What , you want the whole discussion between me and pat?

It's on PaperDragen page 2 I think

By some, yes. Not everybody.

No, not everybody. Just my four accusers, the moderator, a couple of guides, and a few of the accusers friends. But not everybody.

MJL...

Why do you continue to look out for him?

I believe him.

Dennis is a viner, why do you continue to go after him

I don't!

GLobal777

that is your perogative, but don't try pushing your beliefs onto me , won't work

and remember what she posted about her "friends"?

Y'all are just nameless, faceless strangers represented by type on my computer screen and have no bearing on my life. None.

The following are simply not accurate statements:

Because I took on four people who were the aggressors and disproved everything the said.

No matter what they threw at me, I refuted it, as did others.

The fact of the matter, is you have elected to cling to Remote Possibilities, as your defense.

...

I was presumed guilty unless I could prove my innocence...

by...

my four accusers, the moderator, a couple of guides, and a few of the accusers friends.

LOL! We meet once a week...

MJL...

don't try pushing your beliefs onto me , won't work

Thank you, but I had come to that conclusion, long ago...

Let's set the record straight.

Pat revealed Dennis' personal email after she read that Dennis had denied contacting Viners to solicit his petition. She couldn't condone being party to what she believed to be a "white lie", because she received an email from Dennis. Her cyber friendship was not worth the cost of betraying her integrity. The matter escalated when Dennis hinted that his detractors spoofed his email and he denied sending another 18 emails. According to Viki, the logs prove that the emails were sent from Dennis' IP.

Since no additional evidence has come forward to prove Dennis' claims that he's been hacked, everything is conjecture. However, from Global 777, Krishna, Pat, Mrsrachelm, Merliez, truth sleuth and others, their conjecture has been the most plausible, imho.

I see no wrong in Pat's response to Dennis (she retained her integrity by not supporting what she believed to be a bold face lie) and she responded appropriately to the extremely aggressive and cowardly anonymous email.

I think any grave dancing is inappropriate under these circumstances, especially since PatN will likely return.

We are all waiting patiently from Dennis to prove his accusations of spoofing.

JM

But I believe it is a violation to post personal emails from someone without their permission. She also lost friends over it. She was very very angry.

She could have responded privately to Dennis, my name was in that email, I didn't appreciate it one bit. She was hell bent on going after Dennis that she didn't think how it would look or feel to others expecially since the second person in the email she had a very nasty encounter with in the past, her nastyness caught up with her.

JM...yes, and a screen shot of said receipt where his computer was "inspected" would be nice...but wait, what if he made his own and purported it to be some Turkish computer guru, or what if he gets a buddy to do it and make it look like it was legit? What if.....it was a.... "FAKE"???? See, the possibilities here are endless.

vol, why didn't you open your comments?

MJL-3,

You have every right to support your friends. I just recommend caution and an open mind.

I don't think what Pat did was so bad. She felt violated by Dennis because he was indirectly including her in his alleged lie.

PatN will not be duped by anyone, never will.

I closed mine for the same reason you did last night. I opened it briefly this morning but when a certain troller showed up AGAIN, I closed them. And that is how it will remain. I stated what was and was not going to be done on that seed and you welcomed me to yours, remember? Then, I can't remember where, I saw this up and it says " Let's continue where we were with the email discussion" so I thought I would. Is that a problem? Anyway, I have said my piece and I am out of here in 10 minutes...

Carry on...

In Pat's situation, we do not have ANY evidence to support the position that she is lying.

you dont have any evidence that she isnt lying either, regardless of whether Dennis lied about sending emails or not.

The two things are separate events. She has already gone out of her way to smear him and his education making her current accusations questionable.

Believe it or not writing styles often get people caught in criminal investigations --kidnapping and suicide notes are two areas where this type of investigation have proved successful.

PatN will not be duped by anyone, never will.

If that were true she wouldnt seed outright lies ab out taxing those with income $250 K and above or how she could qualify for food stamps --which when it was pointed out to her with direct links to the statutes that she was wrong, she then tried to pretend her entire argument was paying groups to "ADD people to welfare". She's simply not honest and has fallen again and again for right wing lies that have been proven to be falsehoods.

PatN will not be duped by anyone, never will.

Nor will alot of people be duped by her again if she comes back.

What the hell was pat doing applying for food stamps in the first place?? I saw that article. Amazing.

Considering some of the abuse she took in the past, and has dished out, just this side of banishment, I cannot see her running screaming into the night in mortal terror from an e-mail. She doesn't strike me as that kind of wilting violet type. She seemed to be made of much sterner stuff.

So again, this just seems odd, coming right in conjunction with the Dennis' selfdubbed "e-mailgate".

She doesn't strike me as that kind of wilting violet type. She seemed to be made of much sterner stuff.

Imagine being a strong, independent person. Imagine being in control of your life and fighting to get to where you want to be and succeeding. Now imagine that you have a progressive disease that will slowly but surely take away everything you have fought so hard to achieve. Imagine that, for the first time, you have no control over how you live. Now imagine that someone is thrilled about that and about how your life is going to end. Would you be strong enough to not get upset?

Of course it was said that the person came from outside NV.

No, the person is a Viner, but emails are outside of NV scope. Just to clarify...

Good point, NG...hideous.

Not really. I've know people in just such circumstances, who just blew it off - my mother for one, who spent a year taking crap from one of the daughters of my stepfather over his estate and some property. She didn't dry and blow away, although she felt like it at times, and she was getting abusive e-mails and letters for months, not just one.

If Pat was constantly getting bombarded by this kind of stuff, I could see it wearing her down. Just one, nope, does not compute with known information.

Imagine being a strong, independent person. Imagine being in control of your life and fighting to get to where you want to be and succeeding. Now imagine that you have a progressive disease that will slowly but surely take away everything you have fought so hard to achieve. Imagine that, for the first time, you have no control over how you live. Now imagine that someone is thrilled about that and about how your life is going to end. Would you be strong enough to not get upset?

Yeah, except imagine you JUST got finished telling another Newsviner that personal information is fair game. So no, I'm not buying this.

#71.11

http://primarysources.newsvine.com/_news/2010/02/19/3921008-paperdragon-remembering-dennis-p-mccann?pc=25&sp=50#c20893910

I personally find nothing wrong with delving into information that a person has willingly and voluntarily made public.

My guess why she closed it down with all the drama is she freaked out got scared by the email and best way to prevent that person from emailing back is is too remove any and all ways of that person from contacting her.

why wasnt she just as freaked out with the first death threat vile email she receives back in September? Why post it for everyone to see instead of just going to the police with it? wouldnt that just piss off the supposed stalker who demanded she "back off" even more?

LOL!

I love it. How about some soap opera names?

As the Vine Grows
Newsvine Hospital
All My Viners
One Vine to Grow
Guiding Vine
The Young and the Vineless
The Bold and the Vineful

LOL....My fav that I've used in the past is "As the Vine Turns".

At work, I use "As the Rotor Turns". Men can be far more drama than women. Work in a shop full of em. I usually ask them if I need to give them a tampon.

Because of the occasional carnage by banning i would have to refer to newsvine with a Drama found on AMC. "The Vining Dead. A story of the writer Apocalypse were certain writers are stricken with fever, resulting in death but they come back. Zombies, reregs what ever you call them.

Sprinkled with occassional gore, the story lies with the living. A small group and the struggles they face. No real heroes amongst us. We all have our moments.

Dark Shadows.

Vine Is a Many-Splintered Thing.

hmmm, how about:

"When Viners Attack!"

I submit the following as an example of vine behavior (lol)

http://youtu.be/AZ3q2ZJiaUk

I'm with you alienbabyjen...I've been here for a while and I'm still completely clueless of what this fiasco is all about.

If anything, it's a good test and exercise in pitting objectivity and a quest for the truth up against bias and team loyalty, and seeing which prevails. It's not always easy. We do get to "know" the folks around here, and it doesn't always feel good to question things, especially as it pertains to somebody's honor and integrity. But, here we are. Extrapolate all that to our other discussions about politics, religion, etc., and you'll see why the partisan divide exists: The Newsvine dynamics frequently have far more to do with the "team" than the issue.

Mailing people to ask for support has a tendency to be irritating but it is not in breach of the CoH or the UA. So even if he had so what?

That's my feelings, what a silly silly thing to get upset about. I get two or three of those kind of emails a week.

I get two or three of those kind of emails a week.

Beat ya! I get two or three a day. How do you like that toe in your arse? LOL

LOL

*shakes fist at soph*

haha:-)

I agree with you. The CoH is used a lot as a weapon for validating and memorializing one's disapproval of others--not necessarily what they have to say, but how they say it and whether their opinions put them in the camp of "the enemy"--i. e., the stereotypical right or the stereotypical left. And that's not its purpose.

Yes, but not only that.

Who the hell ever heard of a forum site where there are a SERIES of articles about the site's rules that is almost book length, and people lap it up and debate it and immerse in it for months, and make some cult figure out of the author of the series?

I have never seen anything like it.

There clearly are people who like to talk about the COH, at considerable length. It is bizarre, and certainly damages the vibe of this site.

What's even worse is there are people who read it, don't like it, and instead of remaining off of it, decide to attack and stalk the writer for weeks on end, over several different articles.

Oh, and take it as far as looking up personal info on the author and talking about it here on NV.

I defy you to find another internet discussion site where people obsess about and worship the site rules the way they do at Newsvine. It is strange, to say the least.

I think the reason, relative, is partly the reason I posited: It is a very important and powerful weapon that a lot of people deploy in their various partisan warfare battles around here. It is exalted, I think, for reasons that have nothing necessarily to do with the simple admonition, "respect others." To those who understand the words and the spirit and context of "respect others," there's really not much else left to say. I think all of us are smart enough to know the difference in respect and disrespect, and to know the difference in a declarative sentence with a transitive verb and an ugly predicate adjective and one with an intransitive verb and just an ugly adjective.

However, if you're looking for loopholes, such as sentence structure and all kinds of other strategies to utilize to insult your enemy without being suspended or banned, then it lends itself to copious analysis and exposition and a lot of the undue and misplaced attention, imho.

relativetowhat, I'm glad you already know about the COH. It should make you a better viner. You need to know that this is a community enforced site. That is why the COH is important to the community of which you are now a member. Welcome to Newsvine.

looking up personal info on the author and talking about it here on NV.

bonos, I've already explained that and apologized for the offense taken at the question I asked Dennis. I sincerely understand how and why offense was taken, and I've said I was sorry about that. But the author's biographical information is public information on the web on his own website with his name on it. So please don't portray the mention of it as improperly exposing someone's private information. That's inaccurate and is tantamount to an unfounded "accusation" of your own. It was nothing of the sort. And I've already spoken to the regrettable offense taken at my specific question to Dennis.

I'm speaking only for myself. Pat can explain herself if she chooses to. Thank you.

Thanks, Truth Sleuth. My comments, however, are all clearly about Pat. You may have asked a question, but she had no problem taking over the reins. She kept at it, talking about his personal info and things that had NOTHING to do with NV or the emails. NOTHING. When confronted about it it, she, in her typically aggressive, confrontational style, said she saw nothing wrong with it. She even went so far as to cast aspersions on his position AND his colleges, which is why I refuse to see her as a victim.

But the author's biographical information is public information on the web on his own website with his name on it. So please don't portray the mention of it as improperly exposing someone's private information.

Somehow, I doubt you, she, or anyone else would feel the same if it were HER info - the name of her employer, her job title, her resume, etc. - were brought over here to NV and discussed and disparaged. Please don't even suggest that that would be okay. It would NOT be, even though she, like Dennis, has volunteered info about her employer and her industry in the past.

OK. Thanks.

Yep, but the other one got collasped, LMAO

That did bother me.

What my article?

or the collapse?

just names on a piece of paper

Y'all are just nameless, faceless strangers represented by type on my computer screen and have no bearing on my life. None.

What my article?

or the collapse?

Those too.

Way too much article/comment collapsing everywere.

Boudicea, basically I think it boils down to people just liking a good mystery and trying to solve it. Unfortunately real persons' feelings have been involved and hurt. But that's the risk we take when we choose to be here and share info about ourselves, especially when it's so detailed as to include real names and real, verifiable info. Fair game. It comes with the territory. And, there's nothing preventing anybody from simply walking away at any time and never coming back.

Boudicea

This is also about Pat N being manipulative with her friends, casting them aside when she is "hurt" by them. Her condescending toting the line nasty comments, she attacked got other going, then left,

and her some of her " friends " fell for it. they still do

Go and look at that article , pay close attention to her comments, no excuse for it at all.

If you don't like the threats about dennis, then 1) don't go onto them and 2) ask the people who are writing them and who have been hounding dennis for WEEKS now to stop.

Basking in the glory? Wow. Yeah, I'm sure Dennis is basking in the glory of knowing that Pat and her friends have stalked his personal and professional webpages and brought the info over here to NV, where it has nothing to do with ANYTHING. Basking in the glory, indeed.

You wrote #17 and then are going to complain that others were rude? Talk about hypocrisy!

YOU came on here, guns blazing. Don't play the victim. It's really simple. If a seed bothers you, don't go onto it. No, you expected people to do your bidding and stop commenting? Really? LOL

WHEN THAT DAY COMES, MANY OF YOU ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE COMPLETE @!$%#S if you keep conjecturing the way you are going (that was not directed at any one person).

BS, you start out talking to me, knock it off , I wasn't swearing at you so don't swear at me.

I am not afraid of you dear.

I doubt that day willl ever come, she,d have to mail me the original long form to prove it.

LMAO when her friends find out we were correct.

THINK before you speak.

wow that's a novel idea

I'm sure Dennis is basking in the glory of knowing that Pat and her friends have stalked his personal and professional webpages and brought the info over here to NV, where it has nothing to do with ANYTHING.

Hmm, like there hasn't been any of that on Dennis's side...LOL, the irony. And how was it Pat's email address came into the hands of someone who sent a vile email? Oh, right...it was a fake...LOL. Yeah, she did it herself.../sarc/.

Time will tell when this all shakes out and it won't be pretty, of that I am confident.

Obsession about the COH has made some of your relationships dysfunctional.

It is absurd to have a SERIES of long articles written about what are simple rules about conduct on the site, some of which would be better off ignored to begin with.

It is more fun to argue with people about the news and political issues than it is to argue about who violated a clause in the precious COH.

It is more fun to argue with people about the news and political issues than it is to argue about who violated a clause in the precious COH.

Ain't that the truth!

Hmm, like there hasn't been any of that on Dennis's side...LOL, the irony. And how was it Pat's email address came into the hands of someone who sent a vile email? Oh, right...it was a fake...LOL. Yeah, she did it herself.../sarc/.

Yoiu have proof Dennis or anyone else EVER posted anything personal about Pat? You have proof people started sniffin around her personal webpages, social media, worksites, anything like that, and brought info back here to dissect? Prove it. Pat DID that to Dennis. Oh, and Pat let her own email out - she gave it out and challenged everybody to hack her. So don't try to play like Dennis was the only one that had her email.

Now Pat can't defend herself and I'm tired of seeing her detractors strutting around like some kind of friggin heroes because she walked away from THREATS OF BODILY HARM. WTF else could she do? Put herself and her family at risk?

she did that to herself by leaving,. There is still no proof she received that email . she didnt leave the last time she was "threatened" why?

What threats of bodily harm? Where?

And Pat didn't seem worried about Dennis' safety - ganging up on him in a group, and bringing his personal information here to NV where it doesn't belong. Is that something a decent person does??

and this is how people get away with doing nasty things. People start to say who cares?

I care if

1) someone really did send that nasty email to Pat

2) or if it turns out Pat created the entire thing to garner sympathy and get the attention off her smear campaign and accusations. because its psychopathic and those kinds of people are always looking to start trouble .

For my part, I care b/c someone showed herself willing to drag another Newsviner's personal information off of their personal websites, bring it here and disparage it and poke fun of it, as well as to disparage and belittle someone else's illness. We should all care about that.

Darrah, Greenville, SC , you are doing as good a job of moderating this thread as any one I have read. You do not need to explain to anyone why you wrote the article. I do not comment on ones I do not like and as a non seeder I read a lot.

Thank you for writing this one.

crazyrooster,

thats a good explaination, and the fact she was loosing friend before she posted the nasty email.

That's a good theory, that she left before she was able to be banned. This way, she can let the heat die down a bit and come back to fanfare. Well, when she comes back, I hope she'll bring proof of that email she got. ISP numbers, a name of a perp, something like what she was demanding for weeks from Dennis. Fair is fair.

Yeah, almost as hot as Jan Brewer or Barbara Bush! Or John Boehner (shudder) or Chris Christie. GAG.

Oh, the images. Too funny, Bonos.

James Carville takes the cake.

True. He's ugly. But I still say John Boehner looks like the creepy uncle you warn your kids about - don't sit on his lap!

:)